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PhantomVir

Moat Gunplay Updates And Concepts

What do you agree with the most? (Multiple Choice)  

18 members have voted

  1. 1. What I agree with the most is...

    • The Gun Balances
    • The Daily Changes
    • The Cosmic Changes
      0
    • The Planetary Changes
    • The Attribute Addition
    • The Commission Token Addition


Feedback Post

Hello!

            Thank you for coming to view my collection of ideas and concepts as well as suggestions regarding the guns on the servers. This started off as just a concept for a brand-new game mechanic attached to primary guns but after going over everything multiple times and changing things, I felt it would be more beneficial to bundle a whole smorgasbord of suggestions for everyone to view and maybe come up with your own suggestions for the server. Of course, provided are color coded sections for your reading convenience because this is going to be quite a big thread.

 

  • Observed problems
  • Gun fixes
    • Balancing
    • Daily Changes
  • Rarity Tweaks
    • Cosmic Stat Changes
    • Introducing Tier 4 talents
  • Introducing Attribute Slot
    • New talent slot
    • New Item drop mechanics
    • Anomaly Gun
  •  Commission Tokens

 

  • Observed problems

           Because of the G o d Event, we have been able to play with almost every gun and see how much some guns outperform others that are similar to them. This applies to quite a surprising number of guns. Other than that, the large quantities of planetary guns in circulation have highlighted an interesting problem.  If your planetary gun has a bad T4, then its pretty much just a cosmic that’s more expensive to reroll (ignoring the hundreds of mutators in circulation at the moment). I tackled these problems with quite direct ideas that will be explained in the next section. The last thing that I have noticed was a problem is inconsistencies within the dailies regarding guns and in a similar problem, there are limited ways to earn IC. That last thing will be talked about further down in this post.

  • Gun fixes
    • Balancing

           This event has granted us an opportunity to look in depth to every base and titan gun in the pool on how they compare with one another. I believe that balance should have guns that aren’t better or worse than each other in a definite manner but they should be unique and offer different strengths and weaknesses. I have been listening in to everyone’s thoughts and opinions regarding their guns. So without delaying anymore I will now post my suggestions on stat changes. Opinions on these are highly encouraged. [Current Values Are Highlighted In Red]

  • M14 : It’s just not used at all because of its low damage, its just a worse MSBS with a little better accuracy, bringing RPM up should smooth it out.
    • Buff RPM to 263 (250)
    • Nerf mag 18 (20)

 

  • AK47 TE : At the moment its just as strong as an AK47 with little to no kick. This should bring it to be an AK47 with less rpm but easier to use.
    • Nerf RPM to 580 (632) This makes it similar to an sg550 TE but still distinct.

 

  • M8A1 : People seem to not enjoy getting two tapped from across a map by a pretty accurate assault rifle with a scope. This should keep it usable while keeping it in check.
    • Nerf range by 35%

 

  • Sako : From my understanding, sako is also a copy paste of AK47 except for a 0.28x headshot damage reduction, a worse recoil with the upside of having 35 more RPM. It just seems kind of silly in its current form so let’s change it to be more akin to a galil since it shares the galil bounty. This should make it feel like an M4 version of a Galil.
    • Nerf damage to 18 (19)
    • Buff RPM to 710 (667)

 

  • Galil : Galil seems to be not used as much as Famas does the same job more constantly
    • Buff Galil mag to 32 (30)

 

  •  SLOG3 : It’s insanely easy to have this gun be super op. It has one of the highest RPMs of the shotguns while being easy to 1 tap as well as its interactions with projectile talents.
    • Nerf RPM to 52 (67)
    • Fix Projectile talents from always activating

 

  • XM1014 & Benelli TE : Both the XM1014 and Benelli have high RPM but low damage however this leaves them in a state where they are inconsistent. Buffing RPM to make them 2 tap shotguns should give them their own feel while bringing them back into meta.
    • Buff XM1014 RPM to 81 (71)
    • Buff Benelli TE RPM to 100 (84)
    • Nerf XM1014 damage to 6x14 (7x14)
    • Nerf Benelli TE damage to 6.5x12 (7x12)

 

  • Mac-10 & Scorpion Evo: While having near identical stats Mac-10 can two tap heads from across a map while Evo can struggle at mid-range. Range swap should balance the two.
    • Swap Mac-10 & Evo range stats

 

  • Rifle & M24 : These rifles are  copy paste, only difference being Rifle has 2 more mag and M24 is naturally silenced. These changes should make them different.
    • Buff Rifle damage to 55 (50)
    • Nerf Rifle mag to 8 (10)
    • Nerf M24 RPM to 35 (40)

 

  • Dual Elites : Just a small mag buff to balance it out and make it more meta.
    • Buff Mag to 24 (20)

 

  • M1911 TE : It’s hardly used, buffing it’s accuracy to be the same as an MSBS would be more than fair and might have it see some use.
    • Buff accuracy to the same value as MSBS.

 

  • Deagle : The only thing wrong with it is how inaccurate it is but it seems to have higher RPM than the Deagle TE while the TE version is the more accurate one. So Just a smaller RPM buff to emphasize their difference
    • Buff RPM to 170 (150)

 

  • Rifle Lovers : This is the only non-basic pool gun in this suggestion just because of how terrible it is. No one actually uses these things and there has been requests to buff them when they came out. Bumping up the damage or weight should have them see play.
    • Buff damage to 35x2 (25x2) or
    • Buff weight to -10 to -25 (Yes holding akimbo sniper rifles would make you run faster don’t question it)

 

  • Daily Changes

             The dailies at the moment have missing or dailies that don't quite make sense like SR-25/SG552 daily.  Just some quick daily fixes here, nothing special.

  • Move SR-25 and add VSS to share a daily
  • Scorpion Evo and TMP share a daily
  • MP5K and MP5G added to MP5 daily
  • P228 and Cz-75 share a daily
  • M1911 TE and Berettas added to pistol daily
  • M14A1 moved to MSBS daily
  • G36C and FAL share a daily

 

WARNING: From this point on, the changes/concepts suggested can potentially change Moat in a drastic way. Keep an open mind when you view past here.

  • Rarity Tweaks

            At the moment cosmics and planetaries are pretty much the same rarity. If there was a normal amount of  mutators in the shop then the only reason you would want a planetaries is for the potential for 2 good T3 talents or for flex.

          The first suggestion is to change the stat range of cosmics. Instead of having 17-28% mirrored by planetaries, on stats they instead range between 16-25%.  I can already tell that some people wouldn’t like this change. Keep in mind however that their drop chance would be slightly increased to compensate.

          The second suggestion is one that has been asked for a while. Tier 4 talents, talents that you can only get on planetaries. This would not only stop the dropping of insane guns that have talents like double Leech or double Inferno, but also make planetaries actually unique. We could do this in a simple way by just making new talents just for Tier 4, however in the next section I will go into depth about a concept this post was originally made for.

 

  • Introducing The Attribute Slot

         This is the most ambitious concept on this post for a multitude of reasons. It would completely change how guns drop on moat and would definitely shake up game-play and the market. Once again I will explain that this is not a suggestion but a concept, allowing us to brain storm and make Moat Gaming better together. Let this idea inspire you to create or change other ideas.

          The attribute slot would be the addition of a new pseudo-talent slot. Going in right at the top of the gun would be a small sigil showing what attribute your gun falls under (see below). These attributes would do a few things. Lets start at the beginning. In simple terms, the attribute dictates which talents your gun can get as well as giving you a small buff depending on the attribute. The way these attributes are chosen is quite simple. Depending on what gun you get will change the attribute, and these are dependent on the prefix of the gun. The prefix you get will make your gun have a 99% chance to have the attribute assigned to it (I’ll talk about the last 1% later). This essentially will make certain guns actually more worth while than others. Let me give you a quick example.
Mock_up.png.a711da113966e83535dd6ba2c66a7637.png

  Let’s say you dropped a Saintlike AK47 and you wanted to reroll it. You would have access to a certain pool of talents including Armor Peircing But if you were to reroll a Cloudless AK47, you would not have access to Armor Piercing so you would never be able to get it.

(For demonstration purposes)

Hellfire Attribute: Access to

Fracture, Brutal, Armor Piercing, Adrenaline Rush, Centermass, Close Quarters, Explosive, Vampiric, Assassin, Peppers, Strength in Number, Inferno, Debility, Dragonborn.

Nature Attribute: Access to

Swift, Provident, Trigger Finger, Lightweight, Silenced, Accurate, Adrenaline Rush, Sustained, Medicality, Scavenger, Predatory, Speedforce, Stability, Extended Mag, Leech, Contagious.

          As you can see there is quite a difference in which talents they can get. One isn't necessarily better then the other. The other attributes would offer overlapping talents so it would come down to which attribute you would prefer.  Like if you wanted a specific attribute buff. The small buffs they would give you tie into their talent pool. For example if you had the Hellfire attribute. Then talents like Inferno would get a slight buff. Or if you had the Nature attribute then your talents that give you stat bonuses would be increased by 5%.  And this could apply to future sets making it easier to add new event related talents without binding them to uniques. Maybe if you wanted to go the extra mile make a unique attribute for each planetary prefix. 

          Now the reasoning behind this is to
1. Encourage more buying of every crate. Crates that were previously barely bought would now have a reason to open them. Which may also increase the use of crates as IC sinks.

2. Balance the game to prevent Super OP gun but still allow for powerful combinations unless you got lucky for that 5% chance.

3. Bring more meaning to prefixes. There’s 2-3 prefixes for each rarity in every crate but they don’t really mean anything.
 

        Now "what about the 1% chance or anomaly guns?" you might be asking. So when you roll/drop a gun it will have a 1% to get the incorrect attribute. The attribute slot will show the gun is an Anomaly attribute and a few interesting things will happen.  Anomaly guns will have their talent pool unlocked meaning they can get any talent and they will have a guaranteed maxed out talent . This means if you roll an anomaly gun any of its talents could be maxed out, T1, T2, T3 or T4. But don't get too excited because talent rerolling an anomaly gun will remove it's anomaly attribute, unless you hit that 1% chance again.  Orrrr we could ignore that and allow a new breed of G o d Guns because people enjoy dumping mutators to make them and quite frankly when they do exist, seeing them is like seeing mythical weapon that is talked about around the campfire. Bob16, Gun, Nexus, Dragon SMG, Aphrodite. You get  what I'm saying. 

 

  •      Commission Tokens

            So now the last thing isn't as crazy as a whole new mechanic. I'm taking a concept from my old beta concept post. If you haven't read it it's basically a more un-restricting way to earn IC. Upon deconstructing an ascended or above gun you will have a chance to drop a commission token for that gun along with what else you were going to get. So if you deconstructed an ascended P90, and you were lucky enough to get the token, then you would get the IC from decon or mutator and a P90 Commission token. These tokens are power-ups and while equipped will give you 20-100 IC per kill you get while using that gun. So they will pay out less than dailies or contracts but still reward the use of the gun you want to use. These would be tradable of course so I would be interested to see how much people would try to sell them for. Imagine buying them for 50k, you would need like 1000 kills just to break even :p. 

 

   That's all for now, let me know what you think. Share with others as a few things here could be quite important in the future. Of course DM me @vir#0500 on discord or of forums if you have any map suggestions. Thanks for reading!

Edited by PhantomVir (see edit history)
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  • Disagree Disagree x 2
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Rarity changes: I do not think we should be looking to make planetaries stronger because of how many have been introduced into circulation because of the g o d event. Nerfing cosmic stat rangeswill just make every single g o d gun (even the bad ones) top tier, which is not okay because of how many there are right now. As for the new tier 4 talent idea, what kind of talents would go there? There are barely any good talent ideas currently and most of them feel too similar to already existing talents. 

Commission tokens sound like a good idea; however, I do not think you should get the ic/mutator on top of deconning them. I also think they should only drop from ascended tier weapons, and could then function as an ascended powerup. 

Attributes: While they are a very interesting idea, I don't think they will work well based on the inventory system we already have set up. Every person has their own set of desired talents for a gun, and to not be able to get a certain combo that you wanted (for example armor piercing and explosive) because of the categories set up by the attribute system would suck. When you mix in prefixes having set attributes, this will make some prefixes far better than others based on whatever talent pool is set up for them, which will make the economy worse as some guns will sell for more simply because whoever dropped them got lucky with the letters in front of the gun. On top of this, it would be insanely hard to make pools for every single prefix as there are so many in existence currently. 

Anomalies: Having weapons with perfect talents GUARANTEED is not a good idea. Even if the chances to get perfect vamp and trig are super low, perfect talents are nothing to scoff at. Anomaly guns would be way too powerful, especially if they are cosmic tier or higher.

Weapon Balance: This is by far the category that I have the most issue with so I will go one at a time.

m14a1: definitely needs a buff, but i think the rpm should be raised to 272, to be the same as the ots-33. as for the mag size, i dont see a reason for it to be nerfed

ak47 te: this weapon is a sidegrade of the regular ak47. In theory, it should have worse accuracy but better kick than the regular ak. I am unsure exactly how accurate it is, but an rpm nerf is not the way to go for sidegrades such as these

m8a1: another sidegrade of the ak47, it has awful kick and accuracy at range. imo, it is an aug but with less damage and rpm. i see no reason why it should be nerfed

sako: if we want to make it a sidegrade of the galil, the stats should be something like this: 18 dmg 706 rpm 30 mag 2.5 hs multi good accuracy bad kick. afaik, galil has bad accuracy and good kick, so this would turn the sako into an actual sidegrade of it

galil: is fine imo, i dont think it needs any changes

slog: 100% needs to have the projectiles fixed on it, the same goes for all of the other shotguns. it currently works the same way as the old explosive used to, where a single shot could shoot 12 explosive bullets, but now its projectiles instead. as for rpm, if the change for projectiles goes through and fixes the issues with it, i dont think it needs an rpm nerf

xm and benelli: these two shotguns reward having good accuracy with better rpm. i dont think we should change them to two shot weapons as that would make incredibly awful in most situations, a mossberg or shotgun would outclass them in a gunfight HARD.

mac10 and evo: while the evo does need a buff, i dont think the mac10 needs to be nerfed, it already has a hs multi reduction at long ranges, going from 2.7 to 1.2. to fix the evo, i think it should be given at the very least 1 extra base damage, upping it to 15 (maybe 16 if it proves to still be too weak). The reason the evo struggles to two tap head is because it cant currently unless it has brutal

rifle and m24: another case of sidegrades. rifle has 4 more shots than m24 in its base mag, not 2. They don't need changes (although I do think they should be made unable to roll explosive to stop the "one tap" rifle from existing)

dual elites: dualies are pretty underused, i think this would help make them better

m1911 te: idk sounds fine ig

deagle: does not need an rpm buff, it already has 30 more base rpm than the te version. giving it 170 would give it more rpm than the m1911 te and nearly the same as the pistol. on top of this, a rapid deagle could reach over 300 rpm, which is something i dont think anyone wants to see

rifle lovers: they are a gimmick that isnt supposed to be good. if they were to get a damage buff it should be 30x2 not 35x2, that is wayyyy too much. giving them better weight could also be quite frustrating to play against, snipers never move fast in video games

Daily/Contract Changes:

The regular sg550 (deadshot) should be added in with the sr-25 and vss, as they are all high rpm snipers.

p228 and cz75 daily sounds good, but I think the berettas should be added in here as well because they are also mid rpm secondaries.

m1911 te for pistol: yes. m14a1 to msbs: yes.

For the mp5k, I think the best course of action would be too make it its own daily and add the m4a1 in there, as the two guns are similar.

FAL should go with m16, as they are similar.

As for the g36c, I think it already has its own daily, and fits there fine, there isn't another gun I would think as "similar" to it. 

And lastly, the sg550 te should be moved to the sg552, as they are similar. 

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adding  attributes will make the guns even more expensive which will  be the downfall of moat there people will try to buy them for millions and people wont even have ic at this point.

commission tokens is a good idea .

and anomaly is just a bad idea maxing out the talents will be a disaster. if they got a G O D anomaly wepeon  like a shotgun with double inferno or double leech if these guys are maxed it'll just be one of the most expensive guns on moat and it'll ruin other people experience with tryhards using these guns just to ruin other people's fun.

the balancing is kinda good and bad making them balanced will be just no good. if they made big changes to these kind of wepeons that a lot of  people use. they will just quit moat.

but balancing it is good is actually good because people can have fun now with the wepeons balanced and not a tryhard blast's you with a rapid cz with trig and boom  while your on the 4th kill of your penta.

Edited by (:Jerry:) (see edit history)

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16 minutes ago, (:Jerry:) said:

adding  attributes will make the guns even more expensive which will  be the downfall of moat there people will try to buy them for millions and people wont even have ic at this point

and anomaly is just a bad idea maxing out the talents will be a disaster if they got a G O D anomaly wepeon  like a shotgun with double inferno or double leech if these guys are maxed it'll just be one of the most expensive guns on moat and it'll ruin other people experience with tryhards using these guns just to ruin other people's fun 

Attributes would make every gun a similar quality. So g o d and trash weapons wont exist as much anymore. Basically you would no longer be able to get things like a trigger, Vamp, Double inferno guns. You would need to drop an anomaly to get such a gun and even then your anomaly would have to have the chance to be these talents. I get what you are saying but 1/100 chance at an anomaly then the 1/500 for good talents doesn't sound that realistic. Remember once you mutate an anomaly it gets reset and is no longer anomaly. And its completely possible your maxed out talent is something like silenced or accurate or stability or neighboorhood

 

Edited by PhantomVir (see edit history)

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1 hour ago, (:Jerry:) said:

making every gun expensive is not a good idea you haven't thought about how this will change moat.

what will happen if we already have wepeons which are good will it change the talents automatically with the anomaly and attributes addition?  

if Cole added  anomaly  is there a chance that my guns or gun will have one? 

if they added commission tokens how expensive would it be?

why would they nerf the sako isn't it already a balanced gun? 

and changes to the lovers wepeons will it make the gun way to expensive or it will make the guns decon? 

answer these question and i may find your idea intresting.

1. I didnt say this would make every gun expensive. This would make the gap between guns not as far. Instead making every ascended gun 50k this will more likely make most ascendeds 35k with a few outliers. This wont make every gun better, it will make them more consistent. Why would people pay more if every gun is similar. 

2. Unless cole changes the talents themself, talents on guns you already have wont change unless you reroll them. This is the case with every talent change hes ever made unless there was an unexpected bug. 

3.No you would need to reroll it

4. Ask the players. We never set prices, you know this. I doubt they would sell more than 35k due to how many kills you would need to make back the ic spent.

5. Its not a nerf, its a rebalance. It would have +47 rpm and -1 damage which would make its stats actually better than a galil. With a higher mag but more uncontrollable. And it wasn't balanced at all. It was worse than the gun it was similar to. Quite a lot of people have said the sako was underwhelming.

6. They would still be horrible to use regardless, they definitely wouldnt be better than a normal gun I can tell you that much. 

 

Edited by PhantomVir (see edit history)

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5 minutes ago, Melheck said:

I like the poll where you can't disagree but only agree the most with one of your points. Very thoughtful.

Getting no agrees is the same as getting disagrees. It gives me information on what people think and its also that way so that people that disagree can comment instead. This makes it engaging. I'd rather have people that disagree tell me their thoughts. If I gave the option, most people that disagree wouldn't explain why. As of with Jerry above most of his points were because of lack of information. H could have easily just disagreed on most of them and went about his day. But yes, how thoughtful of me

Edited by PhantomVir (see edit history)

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Well it wouldn't be the first time that most people disagree and we end up with things people never wished for. 500 hp round being an example.

"Getting no agrees is the same as getting disagrees." Well not really cause you can't count people that disagree that way. You could just say they didn't care or see and go on with your ideas. Just like in politics, you know, where more than half of the population isn't even voting and they just put this fact aside and go on as if everyone was on the same page.

 

I do disagree with most of the points as it'll just push people to get one OP gun, the commission token going with it and then just w+m1 all day every day. Especially now that most people did ONE event and run only planetary.

I'm not saying anything on balance as it's precise stuff that needs to be tested.

Edited by Melheck (see edit history)
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1 minute ago, Melheck said:

Well it wouldn't be the first time that most people disagree and we end up with things people never wished for. 500 hp round being an example.

"Getting no agrees is the same as getting disagrees." Well not really cause you can't count people that disagree that way. You could just say they didn't care or see and go on with your ideas. Just like in politics, you know, where more than half of the population isn't even voting and they just put this fact aside and go on as if everyone was on the same page.

 

I do disagree with most of the points as it'll just push people to get one OP gun, the commission token going with it and then just w+m1 all day every day. Especially now that most people did ONE event and run only planetary.

These are concepts, not suggestions. Disagreeing with them doesn't do anything because they're not necessarily planned or suggested to be added in the current state. As Creative Director I need to know where players stand on certain things. If people are agree on certain things but not others that shows me that it's not liked. The amount of people that dont like it is not as important as knowing as a majority dont agree with it. Data gathering isnt just 0s and 1s. 
 

And if these were added in their current state, geting an "OP" gun wouldn't be as easy anymore. Commission token would prevent you from using other powerups like marathon or hb and the ic it gives you is less than what you would get from a daily or contract if you even got the max ic for every kill. So there would still be debate on if you wanted the small extra change of ic. If you're claiming an extra 360ic on average per T round would encourage sweating then I will consider this in future planning.

 

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1 hour ago, PhantomVir said:

1. I didnt say this would make every gun expensive. This would make the gap between guns not as far. Instead making every ascended gun 50k this will more likely make most ascendeds 35k with a few outliers. This wont make every gun better, it will make them more consistent. Why would people pay more if every gun is similar. 

2. Unless cole changes the talents themself, talents on guns you already have wont change unless you reroll them. This is the case with every talent change hes ever made unless there was an unexpected bug. 

3.No you would need to reroll it

4. Ask the players. We never set prices, you know this. I doubt they would sell more than 35k due to how many kills you would need to make back the ic spent.

5. Its not a nerf, its a rebalance. It would have +47 rpm and -1 damage which would make its stats actually better than a galil. With a higher mag but more uncontrollable. And it wasn't balanced at all. It was worse than the gun it was similar to. Quite a lot of people have said the sako was underwhelming.

6. They would still be horrible to use regardless, they definitely wouldnt be better than a normal gun I can tell you that much. 

 

Making anomaly is bad getting a chance to get one of the best weapon on moat is gonna be bad ruining everyone's fun because there this one dude who has one the best guns on moat because he rerolled it and got something like one of the best weapon that had max trig and max prox chance with max damage projectile and double leech or inferno please it hard to sleep to think about that and imagine if he kept using that everytime

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27 minutes ago, (:Jerry:) said:

Making anomaly is bad getting a chance to get one of the best weapon on moat is gonna be bad ruining everyone's fun because there this one dude who has one the best guns on moat because he rerolled it and got something like one of the best weapon that had max trig and max prox chance with max damage projectile and double leech or inferno please it hard to sleep to think about that and imagine if he kept using that everytime

You're talking about an insanely unlikely thing because of anomaly. Once again, Anomaly would only max 1 talent. And opening up its talent pool would make it even more unlikely to get a g o d gun. And you can still get op guns even if you didn't get an anomaly. If you had a Hellfire M4a1 its completly possible that you get 3 tap Center mass, Vamp, Inferno. It would be harder to get this if you had anomaly attribute. You are more likely to get good stats on an omega crate cosmic than if you were to try to get an op anomaly gun. 
 

If you were to get 4 perfect talents on an anomaly gun, thats just insane luck and I don't think the anomaly effect even would make a difference. You literally just ended rounded 2 planetaries in a row at that point. Thats the insane luck you're trying to claim would make it a bad idea. If that was the case then planetaries should be removed because somebody could roll Perfect stats, Perfect talent ❤❤❤ M4

should jackpot be removed because one person could win 14 mil from a 0.01% chance then buy the most op guns on the server. I understand what you are trying to get at but I don't think you grasp the likelihood of what you're saying would happen.

Edited by PhantomVir (see edit history)

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@s8nPlz Thank you for the feedback! You picked up on a few issues that I was considering myself and I appreciate you bringing them up. But I also have a few things to bring up myself. 

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

I do not think we should be looking to make planetaries stronger because of how many have been introduced into circulation because of the g o d event. Nerfing cosmic stat rangeswill just make every single g o d gun (even the bad ones) top tier. As for the new tier 4 talent idea, what kind of talents would go there?

  As stated this isn't necessarily a buff to planetaries. Just actually making them different from cosmics. There's realistically only 2-3 worthwhile T3 talents, and planetaries having 2 T3 slots is just lazy. The added talents don't even have to be that strong. When I was first drafting the attribute  concept, the T4 talent I created for the Freezing attribute was called Perma Frost. This talent would slow the movement speed of people that walked over bodies you killed. Not really powerful but definitely something unique. As for nerfing cosmic ranges, I knew this would be a bad fix but I needed to see the feedback for such a suggestion. 

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

While they are a very interesting idea, I don't think they will work well based on the inventory system we already have set up. Every person has their own set of desired talents for a gun, and to not be able to get a certain combo that you wanted (for example armor piercing and explosive) because of the categories set up by the attribute system would suck. When you mix in prefixes having set attributes, this will make some prefixes far better than others based on whatever talent pool is set up for them, which will make the economy worse as some guns will sell for more simply because whoever dropped them got lucky with the letters in front of the gun. On top of this, it would be insanely hard to make pools for every single prefix as there are so many in existence currently. 

  Reasonable logic but also a few things I'd like to point out. Yes people have specific talents in mind but how often is it that you get guns with all 3 talents that you want that aren't just Trigger, Vamp, Leech. The idea behind this was to encourage diversity on opening crates. Say you wanted a Galil with CM, Extended, Tesla for whatever reason. At the moment you would just look for one or open a random crate then just mutate a galil once you got one. As well as there not being a reason to actually unbox guns. Attributes would allow you to pick the crate with the highest chance of getting your talents on your gun. As for the economy, I doubt it would change much. Certain guns sell more regardless because of the common trend of getting offers. Even if you ignore that prefix+gun combo would still play a part. A sniper with a "good" attribute would still cost less because that "good" attribute doesn't have good sniper talents. And there wouldn't be a pool for EVERY prefix, I created 7 attributes when I started this project that would be shared between all the prefixes as a proof of concept as well as some prefixes having multiple possible attributes. 2 of them, Seraphic and Brilliance attributes, would both allow for armor piercing, explosive combo. The prefixes, mythical, legendary, angelic,  celestial, eternal, shiny, virtuous, divine, sacred, saintlike and stunning would have one or 2 of these attributes in its pool. I can go more in depth about his concept in a different post, but in this post it was more for feedback gathering on certain things.

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

Anomalies: Having weapons with perfect talents GUARANTEED is not a good idea. Even if the chances to get perfect vamp and trig are super low, perfect talents are nothing to scoff at. Anomaly guns would be way too powerful, especially if they are cosmic tier or higher.

  This was a silly part of the attribute section, just there to see what players think about a mechanic like this. A low chance for High rolls. I've listened to a lot of the thoughts about this one.

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

m14a1: definitely needs a buff, but i think the rpm should be raised to 272, to be the same as the ots-33.

Remember this gun is more accurate than the MSBS and 1 taps head. An ascended m14 would 1 tap head at 300 rpm. I don't understand why you would want it this high when later on you say you don't want a rapid deagle to have 300 rpm.

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

ak47 te: this weapon is a sidegrade of the regular ak47. In theory, it should have worse accuracy but better kick than the regular ak. I am unsure exactly how accurate it is, but an rpm nerf is not the way to go for sidegrades such as these

It had worse accuracy, then it was buffed and while we could put it back. A more stable innaccurate ak is just lazy. The point of these suggestions was to make guns feel different. Not "the same gun except etc". An accurate, stable AK with lower RPM seemed balanced but more opinions on this would be nice. I see where you are coming from.

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

m8a1

 This gun definitely does not play the same as an AK in my opinion. The spread pattern when ADS makes it quite strong in certain situations which is why a small range nerf to prevent random 2 tap heads across the universe from happening which has been complained about alot.

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

sako

Refer to my ak reasoning. The sako is just the opposite of the AK TE, Its literally an AK except worse with 1 very minor upside. Setting it stats close to the Galil would make a pretty new gun. Not just mimic stats.

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

slog

It has the highest RPM aside from XM and benelli. The one closest to it is spas at 60 RPM. No real reason for it to be that high when it's practically a short range Springfield. Especially when you consider S12 and Moss is at 43.  52 RPM would still put it above base shotgun.

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

xm and benelli: these two shotguns reward having good accuracy with better rpm. i dont think we should change them to two shot weapons as that would make incredibly awful in most situations, a mossberg or shotgun would outclass them in a gunfight HARD.

This is a bit silly. A mossberg would outclass any gun if it shot first lol. And you would be surprised. They already have quite a high rpm that you can get in 2 shots before people fire back. They just have such low damage that when the shotgun inconsistency comes into play they end killing you because you couldn't get the 3rd shot in time. Bumping up the rpm would make them more consistent. Other wise we would have to bump down their rpm and bump up there damage. 

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

mac10 and evo

I agree and disagree. Damage buff to evo shouldn't be the fix because then you're just copy pasting MAC 10. I feel like evo not 2 tapping head is quite an interesting concept. It just doesn't have any benefit that makes up for this. I could see a small rpm buff or range buff as evo's range is really cut at short distances for some reason. The last time I checked MAC's range was a while ago so maybe my data could be off. 

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

rifle and m24

Perhaps this is just a difference in thoughts. M24 being naturally silenced in my opinion is not balanced by giving its counterpart 2 extra ammo. It's highly unlikely that you run the mag dry on a sniper aside from SR. I believe giving the rifle something over the m24 would actually make it more useful. 

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

deagle: does not need an rpm buff, it already has 30 more base rpm than the te version. giving it 170 would give it more rpm than the m1911 te and nearly the same as the pistol. on top of this, a rapid deagle could reach over 300 rpm, which is something i dont think anyone wants to see

This was a typo I missed, I originally meant 160 rpm. Reason being is that the deagle TE is much more accurate than base deagle. M1911 has a 12 mag and if accuracy buff went through then it would just be better than deagle. Pistol pretty much one taps head at 37 damage and has 180 rpm with 20 mag. I mentioned this earlier but why is a 300 rpm deagle scary? Msbs which in all fairness is a deagle rifle, sits at 240 rpm base. Base deagle having 10-20 more rpm isn't that game breaking in my opinion but I'm interested in the thoughts on deagle the most, 

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

rifle lovers: they are a gimmick that isnt supposed to be good. if they were to get a damage buff it should be 30x2 not 35x2, that is wayyyy too much. giving them better weight could also be quite frustrating to play against, snipers never move fast in video games

I get they're supposed to be gimmicky, but even gimmicks are should be usable. Everyone that has used one has mentioned how absolutely terrible these items are. They are definitely not rifles, they don't play the same. You can't zoom in and because of them being duals. You barely even get full torso damage. There is no reason to ever use these things and that's a bit sad to see. Then the huge weight debuff to top it off so you cant even run around and use it like a bad Springfield or shotgun. I don't see how 70 damage is too much for all its downsides or even the weight buff when, like I said, it's in no way shape or form a sniper anymore.

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

p228 and cz75 daily sounds good, but I think the berettas should be added in here as well because they are also mid rpm secondaries.

Yes, good catch

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

For the mp5k, I think the best course of action would be too make it its own daily and add the m4a1 in there, as the two guns are similar.

I'm confused with this one. The M4a1 in titan set? The m4lover isn't a base weapon so I assumed it wasn't that at first. Stat wise they are similar yes but dailies aren't grouped by similar stats, they are grouped by gun types. Imagine if you saw the MP5 daily and the MP5k daily on the same day. If we followed this, a lot of dailies would have to be shuffled around. 

On 7/25/2020 at 4:57 AM, s8nPlz said:

FAL should go with m16, as they are similar.

As for the g36c, I think it already has its own daily, and fits there fine, there isn't another gun I would think as "similar" to it. 

And lastly, the sg550 te should be moved to the sg552, as they are similar. 

I am a bit confused on these last 3 coming from the MP5k suggestion. You prefer MP5k to have its own daily and to have the M4ALover with it (I'm assuming) because they have similar stats. As well as FAL going with M16 and G36 being by itself. Statwise, the FAL is closer to the G36c but realistically the 3 of them are all quite similar just with increasing/decreasing stats. Also G36C has a contract but no daily. Then SG550 TE should be grouped with SG552. I can't tell when you call them similar by stats or similar thematically. Game wise, the SG550 TE is quite different than the SG552. 

I like the thoughts here but I'm just confused on some of the reasoning. 

Edited by PhantomVir (see edit history)

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46 minutes ago, PhantomVir said:

I created 7 attributes when I started this project that would be shared between all the prefixes as a proof of concept as well as some prefixes having multiple possible attributes.

 

48 minutes ago, PhantomVir said:

The prefixes, mythical, legendary, angelic,  celestial, eternal, shiny, virtuous, divine, sacred, saintlike and stunning would have one or 2 of these attributes in its pool.

I like this idea if guns can have multiple attributes that can be rolled.  I'm not entirely sure which prefix goes with which crate, but would it be something like each crate's ascended/cosmic guns would roll 3 attributes each and then the last crate's guns wouldn't roll attributes at all. For example, alpha crate guns could only roll brilliance, hellfire and nature attributes, while spring crate guns can't roll attributes period. (to better fit the number we should try to work towards 9 total attributes but that's a discussion for if and when it gets added) 

The idea above is also assuming we only have attributes for the "base" crates (alpha, beta, crimson, and spring). I would also hope that uniques wouldn't be able to roll attributes because you know, they're unique to a certain crate. 

 

In response to the weapon balance: 

m14a1: The fact that it can't two tap to body at any rarity is why I think the rpm should be upped to be more. As for the deagle part, primaries for the most part shoot faster than secondaries with similar damage (think 16 dmg mac10 at 923 base rpm versus 16 dmg cz75 at 500 base rpm). 

ak te: The reason I stand by sidegrades for guns like these is because the te literally stands for "titan edition" implying that the guns will be similar in most ways but not all. While this may not be true for all titan versions, the ak te has always existed as a sidegrade and I think it should stay one. 

m8a1: I may have been wrong here; I have not used one in a while but in the past I always felt they were super inconsistent at range

sako: I do agree it should be made to be more similar to the galil, but why give it both a higher rpm and mag size? 

slog: before the projectile ❤❤❤❤ that the slog has caused, I don't recall it ever being broken so I don't see why an rpm nerf would be necessary. At close range it can super inconsistent, especially against armored targets. Unlike most of the other shotguns, it can't one tap to armor without certain talents so I don't see a reason to make it take longer to two tap. 

xm/benelli: if we were to make these two tap shotguns, I think the rpm would have to be higher than 100 at base. I think maybe 120 could work (to make them good enough to still catch people off guard before they can get in a shot)

mac10 and evo: I don't mac10 is the issue as the range problem has already been dealt with in the past. I think we both agree that the evo needs a buff in some manner. I personally think a headshot multiplier buff could be nice, maybe even to an extreme of 3 so it rewards good aim at high rpm. To counteract this, a mag nerf to 25 might be needed.

rifle/m24: it's 4 extra base ammo reeeeeeee! In all seriousness though, I think the main issue is that the m24 saw a huge accuracy buff at some point that made it better than the rifle because of its built-in silenced talent. I think something that might be useful to make rifle stick out more is nerf the range on bodyshots from an m24 so it can't do the annoying one tap ❤❤❤❤ at super long range. 

deagle: the problem was the m1911 was supposed to get the mag buff, not the m1911 te. The m1911 also wouldn't completely outclass the deagle, as it can't one tap to armor without certain talents. I think people would still use both. As for the "scary" part, I don't want to see people with ❤❤❤like aim one tapping every person no matter what type of armor or powerups they have at 300 rpm. The msbs wouldn't be able to do so without certain talents such as brutal or armor piercing to go through some of the combos like armor and hard hat or armor and health bloom.

rifle lovers: the reason I don't want them at 35*2 is because they'd be able to 1 tap with center mass. This with a weight buff would let people run around the map 1 tapping people to the chest. I think maybe an rpm buff is the way to go here. 

Contract stuff:

The mp5k functions very differently to the mp5 and mp5 te, which is why I think it should be given it's own category. The reason I chose the m4a1 (titan version which can be used currently instead of an m16) to mix in with it is because they are both on the "slower end" of the "automatic" primaries and have low headshot multipliers. I understand the "weapon type" thing but I having 4 guns for a single daily will make it easier to obtain and very crowded in the ui. 

FAL and m16 are more similar to each other than they are to the g36c. They both have a 2 headshot multiplier and a 24 base mag size. They also always 3 tap at the cosmic stat range, unlike the g36c which needs just over a 19% damage stat. 

For the g36c I was unaware there was not a tier 3 daily for it (I don't do them most of the time cuz I'm bad) but regardless I wouldn't know where else to put it. 

As for the sg550 te and sg552 I know I'm contradicting myself a little from the thematic vs stat argument. But unless the sg552 was added into the aug, I wouldn't know what else I would put it. As for the sg550 te, I could see it going with galil and sako. 

One thing that I noticed that could be an issue is the high rpm secondary part that I said earlier. I don't think we should have 4 guns for a single contract/daily, as it provides a bit too many different options to use. Maybe we could move the cz75 to the glock, or move the berettas into a daily/contract with the ots-33 which is the last gun that I believe hasn't been discussed or has a daily/contract to it.

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31 minutes ago, PhantomVir said:

Attributes would make every gun a similar quality. So g o d and trash weapons wont exist as much anymore. Basically you would no longer be able to get things like a trigger, Vamp, Double inferno guns. You would need to drop an anomaly to get such a gun and even then your anomaly would have to have the chance to be these talents. I get what you are saying but 1/100 chance at an anomaly then the 1/500 for good talents. Remember once you mutate an anomaly it gets reset and is no longer anomaly. And its conpletely possible your maxed out talent is something like silenced or accyrate or stability or neighboorhood

 

making every gun expensive is not a good idea you haven't thought about how this will change moat.

what will happen if we already have wepeons which are good will it change the talents automatically with the anomaly and attributes addition?  

if Cole added  anomaly  is there a chance that my guns or gun will have one? and if it did will it change the talents of my wepeon? 

if they added commission tokens how expensive would it be?

why would they nerf the sako isn't it already a balanced gun? 

and changes to the lovers wepeons will it make the gun way to expensive or it will make the guns decon? 

answer these question and i may find your idea intresting.

Edited by (:Jerry:) (see edit history)

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